Curse

Regulus X · May 17, 2008, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedarkmarine

Lol. Awesome. This Q.Q proves the system is working!

These are the members of the community that Anet catered to... They were the first to QQ because they failed at PvPing in RA and AB and so they sought to drag down the rest of the non-failing players out of pure spite. Now, we have no choice but to NOT PvP anymore, or just afk when we know we're in a team with these kinds of players attached to us. They also implemented such a failing system after many years having passed, which only proves that this system wasn't really needed, but rather "wanted" by a select group of QQing new/casual players among the community.

Being able to leave a match was where it's at. The whole team could choose to map out and reroll another team and that was grand. Nothing was ever too hard about that... Now, we're just stuck and have to waste additional time to rake in any gladiator points because those who can give a s*** less about farming were the very players that cried about everything and had Anet screw everybody over with farming.

thedarkmarine · May 17, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

These are the members of the community that Anet catered to... They were the first to QQ because they failed at PvPing in RA and AB and so they sought to drag down the rest of the non-failing players out of pure spite. Now, we have no choice but to NOT PvP anymore, or just afk when we know we're in a team with these kinds of players attached to us. They also implemented such a failing system after many years having passed, which only proves that this system wasn't really needed, but rather "wanted" by a select group of QQing new/casual players among the community.

Right, cause there's no more loot scaling now, amirite?

Quote:

Being able to leave a match was where it's at. The whole team could choose to map out and reroll another team and that was grand. Nothing was ever too hard about that... Now, we're just stuck and have to waste additional time to rake in any gladiator points because those who can give a s*** less about farming were the very players that cried about everything and had Anet screw everybody over with farming.

Yay, another one that wants to play RA as TA.

shru · May 18, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

These are the members of the community that Anet catered to... They were the first to QQ because they failed at PvPing in RA and AB and so they sought to drag down the rest of the non-failing players out of pure spite. Now, we have no choice but to NOT PvP anymore, or just afk when we know we're in a team with these kinds of players attached to us. They also implemented such a failing system after many years having passed, which only proves that this system wasn't really needed, but rather "wanted" by a select group of QQing new/casual players among the community.

Being able to leave a match was where it's at. The whole team could choose to map out and reroll another team and that was grand. Nothing was ever too hard about that... Now, we're just stuck and have to waste additional time to rake in any gladiator points because those who can give a s*** less about farming were the very players that cried about everything and had Anet screw everybody over with farming.

Ever heard of TA? try it.

Red Sonya · May 18, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Hahah yeah play TA if you don't like RA. Seems to me Regulus X is doing more QQing than the ones he claims are qqing. haha

MarlinBackna · May 18, 2008, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

These are the members of the community that Anet catered to... They were the first to QQ because they failed at PvPing in RA and AB and so they sought to drag down the rest of the non-failing players out of pure spite.

You have extremely bad logic. n00b players don't go on game forums to complain en masse: it is always the good/experienced players. Many of these players were pissed off at the amount of leavers because in such a small game, they would most likely lose. These people only "fail" at PvP because you were the dick that left the group to lose.

To reiterate, there are two undesirable types in RA: the n00bs and the leavers/leechers. The n00bs cannot be blamed: they just don't know the game real well yet, and they can be taught eventually. The leavers/leachers, however, can be blamed for their actions, as they know the game, but consciously refuse to play under any conditions that are not to their liking. I am willing to say that everyone else who doesn't leach/leave or is n00bish would rather have a n00b than an empty slot, and Dishonorable makes empty slots not happen. You say Anet caters to the "people that fail at PvP" when in reality you want Anet to cater to your specific needs in order to PvP. If you really need a good team to win in RA, then that just proves that you are that bad at PvP, for you can only play in certain conditions that are barely met.

So, long story short, you fail at PvP for quitting like a coward and not making use of your Random situation.

Red Sand · May 18, 2008, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarlinBackna

So, long story short, you fail at PvP for quitting like a coward and not making use of your Random situation.

/applause

Bravo!

doudou_steve · May 18, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarlinBackna

You have extremely bad logic. n00b players don't go on game forums to complain en masse: it is always the good/experienced players. Many of these players were pissed off at the amount of leavers because in such a small game, they would most likely lose. These people only "fail" at PvP because you were the dick that left the group to lose.

To reiterate, there are two undesirable types in RA: the n00bs and the leavers/leechers. The n00bs cannot be blamed: they just don't know the game real well yet, and they can be taught eventually. The leavers/leachers, however, can be blamed for their actions, as they know the game, but consciously refuse to play under any conditions that are not to their liking. I am willing to say that everyone else who doesn't leach/leave or is n00bish would rather have a n00b than an empty slot, and Dishonorable makes empty slots not happen. You say Anet caters to the "people that fail at PvP" when in reality you want Anet to cater to your specific needs in order to PvP. If you really need a good team to win in RA, then that just proves that you are that bad at PvP, for you can only play in certain conditions that are barely met.

So, long story short, you fail at PvP for quitting like a coward and not making use of your Random situation.

/winthread

Marlinbacka, you're just GREAT!

On topic: It's ramdom! You never know with who you'll be teamed with, live with it or quit playing.

strcpy · May 18, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Assuming I am a leaver (which I never said I was), what about my fun? You would be better off saying that since I am in the minority I just have to live with it, which is the extent of the argument people are using here.

No, it is about your "fun" being contrary to the rules and making the ones following them "fun" lessened. RA is intended (and has always been) for those to go into random teams and one never knows what they will get. Leaving violates that.

To take it to an extreme example (and as such fails at a few places) it is like a paintballer getting mad because his fun is using real gun. Sure, it may be a blast for that person but it isn't so nice for the rest.

In PvE we will note that some people fun are with breaking the rules of the game - they also tend to get banned for the same reason.

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Also another point...if I am in the extreme minority on this (as some claim), then why did it need to be implemented to begin with? The leavers must have been in the extreme minority before as well, thus causing minimal disruption. If there were a ton of leavers, it means a ton of people didn't like the change.

Not necessarily - I also used to leave the few times I played. The leavers required it. The rest of the team I was on did also (to note, I didn't unless the rest of the team wanted too - which is still doable if the whole team wants too).

To take the extreme example above here (because it also fits) the rest of the people may not like having to carry a real firearm too but the few make it a requirement that you do.

Lastly, even if the vast majority wanted it this way doesn't make it right. To use another "extreme" (yet this time real) example just because at one time (and the few places it still happens) the majority thought slaves were fine and dandy (and the natural order of things) didn't make the system the Right thing to do.

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Random arenas have lost ALL of the bolded over time. It lost the lack of order (because dishonorable forces order) and it lost lack of cause (because of glad points). I could easily say that if somebody left in the middle of the match, then it was a RANDOM occurence for you. If you go into RA, RANDOM things will happen.

You mistake "random" to be the whole process - you have random teams and organized teams. If it was fully random I would highly agree - however it is only random in team assignment. Thus, while you could easily say what you do it would require a willful disregard to what the system intends (either that or extreme stupidity - I will assume a willful disregard). Now, I do agree that it has become less random because of syncing but then I think that ought to result in a fairly long term ban for the accounts doing it (or at the least have the ability to do so removed).

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Also, saying "go to TA" makes no sense. The entire point of RA is for people who don't have a TA team or don't have time for TA. If I had people logged on for PvP I wouldn't be anywhere near the arenas. You'd be better off advocating changes to TA rather than saying get out of RA.

No, *your* entire point for going there is that - that is entirely different from what Anet designed it to be. In PvE land the same thing happens - people argue what the whole point of the game is - title hunting, rare item hunting, farming, killing things, etc and tell the others that they are playing the game wrong. Turns out PvE is about having fun and allowing you to do it. PvP has different "points" depending on which type you play.

Anet has always kept RA for two basic reasons.

The first is for people who can not get into a team in TA to be able to get a team (and thus you can't leave because you don't like their builds). These people are generally considered bad or new players and is why they require so many wins before unlocking TA. It is a place to learn.

The second is for people who want a non-serious version of PvP wherein you get to play with, well, *random* teams. See reason number one as to why this was never anything more than a playground for PvP.

There is not really any place for what you want - there is no place that it is intended to randomly form teams that will disband until they get a team setup every one likes. It is assumed that if you are good enough to fit into a team and care about winning that you can get a team and it is assumed that if you don't care about winning or are bad enough that you are forced on a team that you get whatever you get (and I find this a reasonable assumption).

If you want a team either go to TA or bother to Sync a team. If you want random team assignment to to RA. I would like to see syncing be stopped, however since you usually go out of the RA arenas fairly quickly coupled with syncing being mostly unreliable I don't see it being that much of a problem and not likely to change. It mostly allows people like you to RA with a team they want so you already have your method to do so - in fact it will be MUCH faster than hoping a random group of people randomly grouped will produce something close to the holy trinity that you want.

Dishonorable is working as intended - so far all the complaints only reinforce that it is doing so. There have been VERY few complaints about a dishonorable hex that hasn't done something that is what the hex means (even the ones that have legitimate reason - well if you suddenly have to go AFK you can't complain when the team reports you for being AFK, plus it is only a short period of time if you only get it in those instances).

Holly Herro · May 18, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarlinBackna

*Snip*
So, long story short, you fail at PvP for quitting like a coward and not making use of your Random situation.

I LOVE YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW! ;D

DreamWind · May 18, 2008, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

I'm not sure how you came up with this one. There are two things that probably cause people to sync: The reward (in Glad points) for having an above average team every time, and the fun of winning most of your matches. If anything, Dishonorable makes this harder. Before Dishonorable, syncers could leave at the beginning of the round if they got on the wrong team. Now they can only do that once before Dishonorable kicks in and slows them down. Granted, other things like the district merge have made this a lot easier, but once again that has nothing to do with dishonorable.

It promotes syncing because of the existence of glad points. Everybody wants them. So they have 2 choices to get them consistently...look for the best RA team they can find, or sync with friends. Since dishonorable makes it much tougher to find good teams, syncing is the easier option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

While the possibility is there, it honestly never happens. I've played thousands of RA matches since dishonorable was put in, and I've seen false reporting once, maybe twice, in all that time.

Odd...I've played less games than you and seen it more. I've seen reporting of players simply because they were bad by the reporters standards. The more interesting thing is, I saw less leavers than many people claim. I maybe saw a leaver once in every 5-10 games. I see reports at least as many as that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

Griefing builds were common enough in RA before dishonorable. If anything they are now less common because the timer change made them less effective. Yes, it is annoying that I can't just leave when some runner or terra tank refuses to surrender. This is probably the only real negative effect of Dishonorable on normal players. But the builds themselves are less common then they were, and their effect on enemy teams has been significantly reduced. On the whole I'd say that it's better now then it was.

I personally think griefing is worse now. Think about it: Griefers now know that the griefed can not leave the game without getting dishonorable points. Running is more common than ever...even though it was always common. The only savior from these is the timer, which still isn't enough. Basically my main problem is that there are too many situations in RA now where I'll be staring at my screen doing nothing waiting for the game to end because of dishonorable existing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

It's not about how many of which there are. It's about how RA was meant to be played.

Who says it was meant to be played the way it is now? I think it was meant to be played the way it was when it first started (before glad points and before dishonorable).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

Because even if only 1/10 people are leavers, that means about every third team I join has a leaver in it (assuming I am not one myself). In reality, the rate was much higher then this, with probably more like 1/5 people being leavers (meaning: every other game and sometimes back-to-back games). Like I said above, this made them common enough that RA was becoming unplayable for people trying to play it as intended.

My problem was that people are claiming that "everybody" loves dishonorable so that is the reason it should stay. My point is that if leaving was SO common before dishonorable (which I disagree with but we say it was so for now), than it stands to reason that a lot of people hated the change.

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Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

The random in random arenas is obviously referring exclusively to team composition.

Source?

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Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

Saying "Go to TA" makes perfect sense when the excuse for leaving is "I want good people on my team." You can go pug in TA and check everyones builds before entering if you don't have anyone you know to PvP with. That way you're guaranteed you won't be playing with anyone you consider to have a bad build.

Remember, people leaving is not neccessarily just because they want good people on their team. People are making all leaving sound like evil intentions. Maybe they leave because the game is already over and they want to save time, among many other legit reasons. Dishonorable punishes people for legit reasons as well.

The problem with TA is that it takes much more time, has no guarantee of finding a team (times I play there are rarely people in TA), and is worse than RA for gaining glad points (which is the reason many people play RA instead of TA). If you ask me, RA shouldn't have any glad points and TA should.

The TA argument has many problems. TA does not fulfill player needs that RA can such as playing a few quick games or playing without having to organize a team. Also, if the typical PvP player has players online to form a TA team, they would much rather play GvG or HA. TA, even though it sounds like RA, is essentially completely different form of PvP. You can't say just go to TA because TA serves a completely different purpose than RA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

No, it is about your "fun" being contrary to the rules and making the ones following them "fun" lessened.

Of course it is against the rules NOW, but that isn't the point. The point is that the rules CHANGED, and some don't like it. The old RA had no rules and that is how a lot of people liked it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Lastly, even if the vast majority wanted it this way doesn't make it right. To use another "extreme" (yet this time real) example just because at one time (and the few places it still happens) the majority thought slaves were fine and dandy (and the natural order of things) didn't make the system the Right thing to do.

You are making my original point for me. If the majority like dishonorable, does that automatically mean it is the best thing for the game? I don't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

You mistake "random" to be the whole process - you have random teams and organized teams. If it was fully random I would highly agree - however it is only random in team assignment.

Where did you hear that? Without a source, it is just an assumption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

No, *your* entire point for going there is that - that is entirely different from what Anet designed it to be.

How do you know what Anet designed it to be? For starters, the design of RA now is COMPLETELY different from the original RA. You are basically saying "Anet changed it this way so now you have to play by the new rules they designed".

Fine, but that is not what some people have a issue with. They have a problem with design changes that CHANGED the point of going there. There were hardly any complaints about leavers before glad points came along. Then people were given a farming reason to go there and there was an uproar about leavers. You can't say leavers are the problem when they only came about because of other changes to the arena. You have to say changes are the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

In PvE land the same thing happens - people argue what the whole point of the game is - title hunting, rare item hunting, farming, killing things, etc and tell the others that they are playing the game wrong. Turns out PvE is about having fun and allowing you to do it.

Let me give you a PvE example. You claim people can like farming, hunting, titles, killing things, etc. And that is great, and people should be able to play the game however they want to have fun.

Now lets say Anet changed the game so one of those does not exist anymore. They claim they removed it because it ruined the fun of other people who did not like it. Wouldn't you be ticked off because they removed one of the ways you had fun for a stupid reason?

That is how some people feel about some of the RA changes. If PvE is about having fun and allowing you to do it, then why can't PvP (particularly RA) be the same way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Anet has always kept RA for two basic reasons.

The first is for people who can not get into a team in TA to be able to get a team (and thus you can't leave because you don't like their builds). These people are generally considered bad or new players and is why they require so many wins before unlocking TA. It is a place to learn.

The second is for people who want a non-serious version of PvP wherein you get to play with, well, *random* teams. See reason number one as to why this was never anything more than a playground for PvP.

I agree with both of those reasons being reasons for RA. I think there are other reasons as well though (fun?). Let's say both of those reasons are true though...then why was RA changed to begin with and glad points added?

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Dishonorable is working as intended.

Fair enough. I concede. I can't win this argument. I will say one thing though. All of these "rules" have simply conformed RA to something completely different. RA was originally for screwing around and for newbs. Now, its like RA has been packed into a box, where people can farm and there are various rules, as opposed to its original form where everything was out in the open and everybody was free.

RhanoctJocosa · May 18, 2008, 01:01 PM // 13:01

we all know it's shitty, but there's no point crying about it- there are always going to be more shitters that like it because before DH everyone with a brain would've left on them.

syncing is key.

Willow O Whisper · May 18, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarlinBackna

You have extremely bad logic. n00b players don't go on game forums to complain en masse: it is always the good/experienced players. Many of these players were pissed off at the amount of leavers because in such a small game, they would most likely lose. These people only "fail" at PvP because you were the dick that left the group to lose.

To reiterate, there are two undesirable types in RA: the n00bs and the leavers/leechers. The n00bs cannot be blamed: they just don't know the game real well yet, and they can be taught eventually. The leavers/leachers, however, can be blamed for their actions, as they know the game, but consciously refuse to play under any conditions that are not to their liking. I am willing to say that everyone else who doesn't leach/leave or is n00bish would rather have a n00b than an empty slot, and Dishonorable makes empty slots not happen. You say Anet caters to the "people that fail at PvP" when in reality you want Anet to cater to your specific needs in order to PvP. If you really need a good team to win in RA, then that just proves that you are that bad at PvP, for you can only play in certain conditions that are barely met.

So, long story short, you fail at PvP for quitting like a coward and not making use of your Random situation.

Qft Brilliant you sir wins the thread

.

Red Sand · May 18, 2008, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You have to say changes are the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

...then why was RA changed to begin with and glad points added?

The developers change the game, based on the actions of the players, in order to encourage or discourage a certain type of play.

They added glad points to get more people to do RA, which worked, but resulted in more problems: More synching, leaving and griefing.

They added dishonorable to cut down on the leaving, which in turn reduces synching to an extent.

You can't solve griefing: people just like pissing other people off. That's why some people post here.

Dishonorable discourages a playstyle where 1 unhappy person ruins it for his 3 teammates by not having the courtesy of trying to win.

Dishonorable works like the developers intended.

MoriaOrc · May 18, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

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Originally Posted by DreamWind

It promotes syncing because of the existence of glad points. Everybody wants them.

The question you were responding too was about problems caused by dishonorable, not problems caused by glad points.

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Odd...I've played less games than you and seen it more.

Experiences differ. I'm sure only ANet could make a final word here. In the mean time all we have to base it on is our own observations. Most people are observing very few undeserved reports.

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I personally think griefing is worse now. Think about it: Griefers now know that the griefed can not leave the game without getting dishonorable points.

Before, a good griefer could keep the 4 players on the opposing team occupied for as long as they could stand to stay around, and their 3 teammates only as long as they stayed. Now, they can keep all 7 occupied for only about 6 minutes (10 on priest maps), assuming it takes the opposing team about 2 minutes to kill the other 3 players. I said above, yes it sucks for those 3 people that they can't leave, and yes I would love to be able to leave in that situation. But it's much better for the 4 people who may or may not be on a winning streak, that they only have to wait out the count down instead of spend an hour chasing a runner around the map because they don't have a snare, or waiting for a shadow-form tank to trip because they don't have non-spell enchant removal. On the whole, it's better.

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Who says it was meant to be played the way it is now? I think it was meant to be played the way it was when it first started (before glad points and before dishonorable).

Well, ANet obviously has a pretty big say, and their idea of how it was meant to be played can be enforced, to a degree, by mechanics like Dishonorable and incentives like Glad points.

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My problem was that people are claiming that "everybody" loves dishonorable so that is the reason it should stay.

Nobody is silly enough to claim everyone likes it, just that most people do. Leavers were far from a majority, but they didn't have to be to wreck it for everyone else. Here's another stat for how common it was: In a typical 10-win streak, no more then 5 battles were usually 4v4 (pre-Dishonorable).

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Source?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PvP Primer Article (October 2006)

Remember why these arenas are called Random Arenas—you are randomly grouped with players, and you fight against other random groups.

Link

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Originally Posted by State of the Game Article (July 2006)

The Random Arena is the fast and easy way into Guild Wars PvP. You cannot start a team in the outpost, but you will be randomly grouped with three other players for a team of four after you enter the mission.

Link

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Originally Posted by Factions' Manual on "Arenas"

Enter the Arena and compete in PvP gladiator-style battles for experiance, or just for fun. Arena matches don't require you to form a party, the Arena creates teams automatically from available players. The Arena is a great place to find PvP action any time.

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Originally Posted by Nightfall's Manual on RA

On the Battle Isles, the Random Arena is a great place to find PvP action any time, particularly for new players. When you enter an arena, the arena automatically creates a random team from the pool of available players.

Unfortunately, the Proph manual only talks about GvG and Tombs. Is four quotes from various points in time enough?

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Remember, people leaving is not neccessarily just because they want good people on their team. People are making all leaving sound like evil intentions.

A few quotes that have prompted rounds of "Go to TA" in this very thread:

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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

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Originally Posted by Alex the Great

how often do you get parties you need to leave?

All the time. I prefer to leave and rejoin until I get a team that isn't stupid.

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Originally Posted by Kassad

RA - People leave games because too many teams in RA are 2-3monk teams with no damage dealers and too many people playing do not have the IQ required to type /resign.

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Originally Posted by brad-

I refuse to hold idiots like that up for 4 minutes...either win or lose because I'm not going to get a glad point with anyone like that. Typically I have to either leroy the other team, or leave right after a victory because of the dishonorable system. It just makes me spend extra time with teams that have no business being a team.

Note the common trend of "I want to leave when there's something I don't like about my team."

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Maybe they leave because the game is already over and they want to save time, among many other legit reasons. Dishonorable punishes people for legit reasons as well.

Nobody talking about leavers is talking about this.

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The problem with TA is that it takes much more time, has no guarantee of finding a team (times I play there are rarely people in TA), and is worse than RA for gaining glad points (which is the reason many people play RA instead of TA).

Then what you'll have to do is weigh the disadvantages of both: In RA, you have to play random teams (disadvantage), while in TA it takes more time to get a team formed and other teams are better (disadvantage). What you can't do is try to force the advantages from TA (that your team composition is under your control) into RA (where it isn't).

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The TA argument has many problems. TA does not fulfill player needs that RA can such as playing a few quick games or playing without having to organize a team. Also, if the typical PvP player has players online to form a TA team, they would much rather play GvG or HA. TA, even though it sounds like RA, is essentially completely different form of PvP. You can't say just go to TA because TA serves a completely different purpose than RA.

Nobody is suggesting everyone just pick up and go to TA. The "Go to TA" line is a counter for the "I leave because my team sucks" line. Most of us don't care if we get an echo-mending wammo on our team (at least not enough to want to leave the match). Those that do care have an arena with a similar format where they can play with a 100% guarantee that they know exactly who will be on their team going in.

DreamWind · May 19, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

The developers change the game, based on the actions of the players, in order to encourage or discourage a certain type of play.

They added glad points to get more people to do RA, which worked, but resulted in more problems: More synching, leaving and griefing.

You have to ask yourself this...If RA was originally intended to be a newb arena or a screwing around fast PvP arena, then why did they add glad points which added farming and brought a heap of new problems?

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Originally Posted by Red Sand

Dishonorable works like the developers intended.

Yea...as a patch to previously bad changes that simply adds more problems that weren't originally thought of.

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Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

The question you were responding too was about problems caused by dishonorable, not problems caused by glad points.

I put them in the same category because dishonorable only came about because of glad points.

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Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

Before, a good griefer could keep the 4 players on the opposing team occupied for as long as they could stand to stay around, and their 3 teammates only as long as they stayed. Now, they can keep all 7 occupied for only about 6 minutes (10 on priest maps), assuming it takes the opposing team about 2 minutes to kill the other 3 players. I said above, yes it sucks for those 3 people that they can't leave, and yes I would love to be able to leave in that situation.

You are referring to the timer as a way out of this, and I agree that the timer is good for RA. But this has nothing to do with dishonorable being good. Dishonorable just prevents people from leaving a useless game and wasting those 6 minutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

Nobody is silly enough to claim everyone likes it, just that most people do. Leavers were far from a majority, but they didn't have to be to wreck it for everyone else. Here's another stat for how common it was: In a typical 10-win streak, no more then 5 battles were usually 4v4 (pre-Dishonorable).

Eh...I'm not sure where you got that stat. I don't remember near as many leavers as that. It just doesn't make any sense to me, how habitual leavers can somehow be in the small minority, yet cause a huge uproar and thus a big change to the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

Unfortunately, the Proph manual only talks about GvG and Tombs. Is four quotes from various points in time enough?

Yes, thanks for the sources. I do find something humorous about them though. There is the claim that the arenas are good for particualarly new players and fast PvP action. Cool...but then why the heck did they add dishonorable (slows down the action) and glad points (promotes farming newbs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

Note the common trend of "I want to leave when there's something I don't like about my team."

Quote:
Maybe they leave because the game is already over and they want to save time, among many other legit reasons. Dishonorable punishes people for legit reasons as well.

Nobody talking about leavers is talking about this.

Therein lies a problem. Even if dishonorable works as intended of stopping the first type of people, it also stops the second type of people and adds new problems. Basically everybody continually brings up the worst abusers (who are the big minority to begin with) and says "dishonorable rules!" when in reality there is much more than that dishonorable kills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

Nobody is suggesting everyone just pick up and go to TA. The "Go to TA" line is a counter for the "I leave because my team sucks" line.

Those that do care have an arena with a similar format where they can play with a 100% guarantee that they know exactly who will be on their team going in.

Thats fine and I see what you are saying, but that isn't really the issue with TA. Using it simply as a counter does not work.

Take a player who plays RA once in a while. He leaves at the end of games if the games are going to take a long time to end. He might even leave a game looking for a monk once in a while. He only plays in RA if he doesn't have any friends logged on or doesn't have a lot of time. He can't go to TA because there is nobody in TA to form a team with and he doesn't have the time anyways.

You can't say "go to TA" to this typical RA player. Not to mention, RA is full of players farming gladiator points nowadays, so telling them to go to TA is not going to work because they know RA is easier.

As I said before, RA is a completely different animal nowadays. It is similar to Guild Wars in general in a way...a lot of people think that what it is today is different than what it used to be. Some people just want the good old days back I guess, and this is just a VERY small part of that.

Maria The Princess · May 19, 2008, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

99% of everyone effected by this are NOT leechers.

RA - People leave games because too many teams in RA are 2-3monk teams with no damage dealers and too many people playing do not have the IQ required to type /resign.

So you are stuck because if you leave you become Dishonorable.

AB - Simply, half the teams usually consist of idiots who try to 1v1 people or people with terrible builds.

Tweak it or just simply remove it.

It's doing more harm then good.

oh my god... i actually made a thread (about a year ago) with an idea to give a punishment for leavers, well my idea was a title that you cannot hide... except that my thread was for PvP and PvE both.... and got yelled at by the forum users! i am happy that now leavers/leechers have some punishment.

dishonorable = good idea

if you cant live with an option that your team might be random and there is not much you can do about it (try to tell a PUG guy in AB : dude your build sucks you HAVE to run X instead or go change characters to your monk; good luck with getting a party of 4) then simply go with guild groups in AB, and dont even bother coming to RA, dont ruin the game for everyone else.

pumpkin pie · May 19, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

lol if you want to leave your team behind then be prepared to be label dishonorable, live with it as we have live with dishonorable players leaving us to die!

I hope this stick with the character too. probably make their characters that enter the AB area turn green or yellow ochre or some ugly color so players can see they are dishonorable.

DreamWind · May 19, 2008, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

oh my god... i actually made a thread (about a year ago) with an idea to give a punishment for leavers, except that my thread was for PvP and PvE both.... and got yelled at by the forum users!

Which simply shows my earlier point that a lot of people did not want changes. Some people posting in this thread want you to believe that somehow everybody is happy with things.

yesitsrob · May 19, 2008, 07:16 AM // 07:16

it's a shit system, don't think it's the worst idea ever though. They've done way more stupid things before. It'd be ok if dishonored only affected RA maybe - but the fact you can't go and gvg when dishonored is retarded, considering your reason for leaving RA before a match is over might be to make an AT on time... and there's no shortage of 8 minute RA matches, all it takes is 2 monks who don't completely suck vs bad damage and shutdown

upier · May 19, 2008, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

it's a shit system, don't think it's the worst idea ever though. They've done way more stupid things before. It'd be ok if dishonored only affected RA maybe - but the fact you can't go and gvg when dishonored is retarded, considering your reason for leaving RA before a match is over might be to make an AT on time... and there's no shortage of 8 minute RA matches, all it takes is 2 monks who don't completely suck vs bad damage and shutdown

That made me wonder:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wiki Info

Players who leave a PvP match prematurely will receive 5 dishonor points.
Any account that has accumulated 10 or more dishonor points is given the Dishonorable status, which is displayed as a buff icon on screen. While affected by this status, no characters present on that account may enter any PvP missions.

So if you were to leave a match to catch a GvG match - shouldn't you have 5 points?

Shamelessly on-topic:
I seriously need to try to get this title once. The Wiki piccy is so low-q.